Is It A Bad Idea To Autocross Your Daily Driver?

"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris) 09/18/2015 at 09:42 • Filed to: autocross, daily driver, chevy cruze

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My brother and I have been having this discussion for the last few days and I wanted to know what other people though. My brother just got his first car, a 2013 Chevy Cruze 2LT with the RS appearance package (picture above is from GIS, not my brothers car). It’s a 6spd manual with 1.4 Turbo engine. It’s a peppy little car and a lot more fun to drive than I was expecting. He’s getting new tires on it this weekend and I suggested he take out to a local autocross event in a few weeks to see how it does. He said he had considered it, but my dad overheard and told him he’d ruin the car doing so. I told him most people that go do autocross (at least around where we live) use their DD, and he probably wouldn’t even leave 2nd gear. But after he talked to my dad, he’s very reluctant to go try it out.

So my question to you Oppo is this: is it an acceptable risk to autocross you daily driver? Does the risk of what could go wrong or break outweigh the fun of dancing your car through the field of orange cones in the mall parking lot? I can’t think of anything going wrong with his car, especially because he won’t really know how to push it yet. The only thing I could see would be him mis-shifting or wearing down the clutch, but it should be getting a brand new clutch an flywheel in it this weekend as well. So, what are your thoughts? Have a WTCC Cruze on two wheels for your time.

Milky > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:49

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What could go wrong?!

jariten1781 > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:50

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“So my question to you Oppo is this: is it an acceptable risk to autocross you daily driver?”

Yes.

But if Dad is paying for the car, insurance, gas, letting you live rent free, etc. his opinion is worth more than the internet's.

fourvalleys > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:50

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It’s a great idea to autocross whatever you’ve got. Minor tire/brake wear aside, the worst that’ll happen at most events is he’ll get a cone stamp. If something is going to break, it was probably about to break on the street anyway. I wore through a suspension bushing on my Mini (not a DD) and a friend ate up his fender liner after carrying a cone, but his was about the most serious I’ve seen in a DD. It’s about as low-risk as you can get.

Obviously, you have to worry a bit if the parking lot has curbs or poles, but I’m hoping most organizations do as much as possible to eliminate issues.

As an aside, why is a 2013 getting a new clutch and flywheel? I don’t expect that it’s a performance mod... how many miles are on it? Did someone really burn up the clutch? :(

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:53

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Nope, not at all unless you have something stupid fragile. I don’t think that a day of autocross is any worse for the car than one commute of rush hour traffic.

crowmolly > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:53

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it should be getting a brand new clutch an flywheel in it this weekend as well

Why?

To answer the original question, sure, AutoX your DD as long as you have the money to fix it if you break it, and you have alternate means to get to work if needed.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky 09/18/2015 at 09:54

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That’s some poor course configuration there.

Cash Rewards > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:55

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I regularly autocrossed my Mini when I owned it, and it was my DD. Sold it at 98k, and didn’t have one problem. Just as long as you understand that what Milky posted below can happen, but is preventable if you’re not an idiot. I’ve seen two wrecks at autocross, both were people trying to save runs that were already ruined. If you start to lose control, just bring it to a stop

jjhats > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:56

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its very low risk. with that said if you wreck it insurance prolly wont help you unless you lie very hard which I don’t suggest. just drive the car autox is so much fun and a great way to get to know your cars limits

Cash Rewards > Milky 09/18/2015 at 09:57

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What do you mean, I can’t brake full force and throw the wheel to full lock at the same time?!

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:58

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Do it all in your daily!

My DD has been autocrossed a lot, rallycrossed in the middle of a frozen lake, and will soon see its first track time at a DE on Road America (I have a feeling that will become an addiction and more regular occurrence).

Of all of those, or any automotive pursuit really, autocross is the least stressing on your car. The only thing that is less likely to result in damages is probably a road rally, and even then you have a better chance of being hit by another car on the road.

Roman Savchuk > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 09:59

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Power steering components get a lot of stress from autocross, so it’s worth checking the prices for PS pump and steering rack for your car))

miadaman? yes please > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:02

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You can drive as slow as you feel comfortable on your turn, at the same time get rides with people who like to punch it. Have your cake and eat it too!

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:03

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Nothing worse than cone scratches on the paint. Man, I rallycross my DD (FR-S) and haven’t done more than cosmetic damage up it. Autocross is really easy on cars that are mostly stock

Jayhawk Jake > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:03

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Is your daily driver a 1994 Honda Civic you bought for $500 with 200,000+ miles on it? Yes, it’s a bad idea.

Is your daily driver a relatively new car? It’s not a bad idea at all. Unless it’s a Subaru. Those blow up a lot.

I have been autocrossing for two years now. I drive the pants off my daily. I’ve never had a problem arise from autocross. In two years of autocrossing 2-3 times a month I’ve only seen 5 cars have issues: one was a heavily modified WRX that blew it’s engine, one was a heavily modified WRX that had a power steering pump failure, one was a heavily modified WRX that had something break, one was an STI that blew its rebuilt motor, and one was a Neon SRT4 that broke its transmission.

I’m sure you’d be fine. My recommendation would be to take your dad to autocross and watch. He’ll see that it’s really not that bad on the cars and then should be willing to let it run.

Jayhawk Jake > jjhats 09/18/2015 at 10:05

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You won’t wreck it at autocross unless the event is poorly managed or you’re a complete imbecile.

yamahog > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 09/18/2015 at 10:08

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FWIW OP, that is even coming from a guy who destroyed his fan blades and puked coolant all over the place three hours from home in a stripped out old Bimmer. A new, mechanically sound DD with new tires is probably going to be fine, and cone marks come right off.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > jariten1781 09/18/2015 at 10:10

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Very true. And my brother is still currently living at home while going to school. It was more just for him to continue the debate with my dad, who just also happens to be building a car he claims will be for autocross, but I doubt will see anything more than the local car shows.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Milky 09/18/2015 at 10:11

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I believe they call that “unexpected curbing.”

Steve in Manhattan > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:12

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If you can’t survive a couple weeks without the car, I wouldn’t risk it. Also, second gear is the most used gear, so you might wind up rebuilding the transmission at some point.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Cash Rewards 09/18/2015 at 10:12

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I know right? What kind of a world is this?

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:12

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nope

jariten1781 > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:22

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I’d say: drive it responsibly for a while (no wrecks, no tickets, no calls from neighbors), take care of maintenance before Dad thinks to remind him, show that he appreciates and cares for the vehicle, then bring it up again come Spring or Summer.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Milky 09/18/2015 at 10:23

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That actually made me cringe. Holy shit!

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > fourvalleys 09/18/2015 at 10:27

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A friend of my dad’s is a wholesaler and picked the car up at an auction recently. The car has ~80k miles on it, but no idea of how it was maintained previously because they never bothered to run a CarFax on it. My brother was trying to drive it on Wednesday and said he couldn’t get it to shift. They had it towed to the dealership yesterday and found that, and this is according to what my brother told me over the phone, clutch fibers had balled up and gotten jammed in the flywheel causing it to not fully disengage. So what we think is that the previous owner was absolute shit at driving manual and seriously wore down the clutch. So the current though from the dealership is that it needs a new clutch and flywheel. Haven’t heard anything after that.

fourvalleys > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:37

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Yikes! Hopefully that’s it. Based on what I saw at my last autocross, the little turbo LTZ can be pretty quick!

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Jayhawk Jake 09/18/2015 at 10:37

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No, definitely not an old clunker, lol. This is for my brother and he’s got a 2013 Chevy Cruze. My current DD is a ‘97 Crown Vic which I would never even consider autocrossing, hahaha. That’s what the project car is for. But my dad know all about autocross and is even building a car that he claims he’ll use for it. But it’s a second car for him and not his DD (his DD is an F-150 though, so that’d just be a dumb idea). I think that last part you mentioned is probably a smart move though. My dad’s idea of autocross is a bunch of pro-touring muscle cars on the Power Tour. Which is why he’s building a ‘79 Trans Am. I don’t think he realizes that most autocross is a bunch of young guys in relatively stock, affordable Japanese cars.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > crowmolly 09/18/2015 at 10:44

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Car was bought from auction, so best guess is that previous owner didn’t know how to drive stick worth a damn. And it is my brother’s only car, so that’s the main reason my dad is against him doing it. But my argument is I can’t see him doing anything that would put the car out of commission that couldn’t happen on his normal commute to school.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > jariten1781 09/18/2015 at 10:47

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Very wise. That’s probably the smart move there.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > fourvalleys 09/18/2015 at 10:53

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I hope so too. He’s already obsessing with the thing and mapped out how he wants to upgrade/modify it, hahaha. It’s funny though becuase a year ago, he didn’t really care much about cars. He had his license and all, but didn’t have a car so they weren’t something that interested him the way they do me. Now that he finally does have his own car, let alone a car with a manual and a turbo, he’s caught the gearhead bug. I’m so proud *sniff*!

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 10:55

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Mostly unrelated to the question - I didn’t know you could get an LTZ with a stick. That must be a lot of fun to drive, especially with a mild tune. I wonder how long GM offered that particular option, because I don’t remember it in 2012 when I was shopping for a car.

finn's arm > crowmolly 09/18/2015 at 10:55

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This.

As long as you can pay to play, you’re fine.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > yamahog 09/18/2015 at 10:57

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He’s not the only one of us to have done that. Was that at autoX, though?

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 09/18/2015 at 11:10

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Good catch. I just texted my brother and he said it’s actually a 2LT, not an LTZ. I’ll correct that, thanks.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Steve in Manhattan 09/18/2015 at 11:12

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I think that is an excessive way to think. The only thing in Autocross that gets more worn than regular street driving is the tires. Every other component is doing the same exact job it would on the street. It is not track driving so you are going at most 60mph, generally less (especially in something stock with a newcomer). Risk is incredibly higher just driving to work everyday.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 11:16

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The way I look at it is that my risk is actually much lower while autocrossing than driving anywhere else on public streets. Commuting to work every day, going long distances for vacation, or just spirited driving on back roads carries a much higher risk of damaging the car. So the time spent on the Auto-x course is actually risk prevention in my mind!

Steve in Manhattan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/18/2015 at 11:21

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Fair enough - tires are probably not too expensive for this car.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Steve in Manhattan 09/18/2015 at 11:26

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But yeah from a monetary risk perspective, All-season tires do get pretty ruined from auto-crossing. So if you were to do a lot of it then investment in summer tires quite often would be necessary. I suppose this is a risk to a regular maintenance budget.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 11:39

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That makes a bit more sense. I know the RS package was available separately on lesser trim levels (and still is, actually), which is the best way to get a good looking Cruze with a stick, but I didn’t think the LTZ ever had a stick option. If it was, I might have bought one!

Rico > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/18/2015 at 11:40

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Wow not every parking lot is meant for Autocross. Next time they should set up between these here poles:

Rico > crowmolly 09/18/2015 at 11:40

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Same question I was about to ask, the car is from 2013 and needs these things replaced?

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/18/2015 at 11:46

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I like the way you think! No other traffic to worry about crashing in to you. Nothing too high speed. No real obstacles to hit besides a few small orange traffic cones. Makes perfect sense to me!

Steve in Manhattan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/18/2015 at 11:48

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Or another set of wheels and tires - pain in the ass changing them all the time though ....

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 09/18/2015 at 11:48

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Yea, I thought he told me it was an LTZ, but I never paid attention to the badge on the trunk, so I had no idea, lol. And yea, getting the top level trim option with a manual would be a really sweet deal!

Shift24 > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 11:55

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Shouldnt be an issue but there is always the possibility of some thing going wrong. This is also true of whenever you turn that key. Best case scenario is find a beater, fix the issues and use that. That way if something happens you dont have to fix it right away because you dont need to.

There are tons of cars out there you just have to find one. Like my Accord, got it for a little over $1000, fixed its issues, and Rally crossed it. (would suggest it over Autocross but greater chance of breaking something.)

crowmolly > Rico 09/18/2015 at 12:00

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I know guys who have gotten more than 2 years out of a clutch doing 5500 RPM dumps at the strip with regularity.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Shift24 09/18/2015 at 12:11

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Yea, well my brother’s in college and doesn’t have the money to buy a second car for racing right now, even if it is a beater or something. And I wish we had rallycross around here. But I’m in SC and as far as I know, there’s not anywhere that does rallycross in the state. I’ve actually looked around a bit because I like the idea of rallycross a lot more than autocross and was going to buy a little beater Subie and do that. So far, no luck. Admittedly though, I haven’t looked in about a year. Maybe I need to check in to that again.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 12:24

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Yes it would have. Ford started to offer a stick on all trim levels of the Focus in 2013, but they only have a 5 speed. The gearing is way too short for the amount of highway driving I do, so I grabbed a 2012 while they were still available. A 6 speed like the Cruze has would have been nice.

And related to your actual question, I’d hesitate to drive a DD, especially a fairly new one because you rely on it to be reliable. I wouldn’t want to put the wear on the tires, brakes, and suspension on a car I use every day, and plan to for many years. I’d sooner get a cheap beater and race that around, but that’s not always practical.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Rico 09/18/2015 at 12:29

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Pretty sure that they’d make the poles the slalom. You might end up with more than a two second penalty for nailing one. The parking lot looked fine judging by what we see in the gif, it was just the setup. That box is designed to unsettle the car. Since you’re braking into the left hander, the car’s almost always going to end up going into that kerb if you don’t get back on the gas right. It looks like there’s approximately 20 feet between the exit of the box, meaning that the kerb is really a maximum of ten feet off line. That’s just stupid. It needs to spit the driver out the other way. Just mirror the turns before it and after it and you have just as challenging of a run with a very similar optimal time without the broken hubs. I’m really surprised that no one there said anything, but not every autocross is run well and not everyone’s as outspoken about it as I am. My good local’s pretty great (I seriously think it’s one of the best run events in the country after going all over the southeast for these things), but even then I’ve sometimes spotted issues where the worker stations could be in the way of a spinning car or where a noob could get lost on A without pointers and end up running towards the B side as a car’s returning on it, and you know what happens? I or someone else who also spotted it brings it up with the organizers and almost every time they go out, take a look, agree, and make modifications to make things safer. That’s what competence and egos that aren’t overblown leads to. If it can be done safer with minimal effort, it’s just a no-brainer. My other local is not well run by competent people. It’s run on a small oval on days when they don’t have other events and there are four different super-sketchy spots on it that could be very easily fixed by just reversing some turns to direct out-of-control cars the other way or putting a pointer down off-line to force the car to slow, but they run the same layout every time because they just don’t give a shit. I kind of feel conflicted about parts of it. I still go because you get a shitload of seat time and it’s local, but I’ve seen people fuck up their cars at three of the four places and I came close to hitting the fourth one (which is a light pole) once. I almost don’t want to support them because of it. There are so many noobs who show up to these events that at the circle track ones I almost want to tell every single new person there to go home, wait for the other one, and cut your teeth there because you can’t hurt yourself if you fuck up. I probably wouldn’t go to it at all if I didn’t have a dedicated track car. There’s no way in hell I’m going to risk destroying my daily there because they really do set you up for it.

yamahog > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/18/2015 at 12:35

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Yup :) says more about that vehicle than autocross itself though

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > yamahog 09/18/2015 at 12:50

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Yeah, I realized that’s what you were saying after writing out a longer reply listing out the failures I’ve seen at autocross and about how they were almost exclusively sketchy-as-shit projects that shouldn’t have left the garage yet or under conditions that would end up angering some normally operating cars away from the track too. The thing that I see over and over again being in Florida and having 10 months straight of the worst summer heat wave you can imagine is cars overheating after idling too long on the grid. This seems more likely in less crowded events where you’re more likely to do run after run with only a few minutes between them (not enough to make turning the car off and back on make sense), and I don’t think is really fair to blame on anything other than the weather the first time it happens to a car since you can’t see it coming or know what the limit is before it happens. After that you should know better and know when it’s time to give the car a breather, or at least I did, but the risk for this on a newer car seems lower, and it isn’t really a deal-breaker either way. The car starting to overheat once isn’t going to do any damage.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 13:20

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Yup, generally my greatest worry of my car getting destroyed is either crazy traffic or a deer running into the road. I don’t have ABS so the whole deer thing is always scary.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Steve in Manhattan 09/18/2015 at 13:23

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That is definitely the ideal case. Then you can save your autocross tires from commuting abuse and the street tires from autox use. Little difficult when your apartment complex send the gestapo after you for ANY maintenance though lol.

Rico > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/18/2015 at 13:24

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The only autocross I witnessed had massive run off areas where the only way to get hurt or damage your car is if you went flat out for 6 seconds into a fence/curb/light pole. That’s likely the only one I’d mess with!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Rico 09/18/2015 at 13:49

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That’s how most of them are and how they’re supposed to be. Really, unless your car is super-sketchy (literally falling apart - seems to be a Triumph problem) or the engine’s on its last legs, there’s really no way to do real damage your car at a properly run autocross. In who knows how many events, I’ve managed to rip off part of a fender liner (don’t care) and once ended up with a super shallow dent that I got popped out for free. Both of thoese were when being extremely aggressive on abnormally fast courses and were the larger finishing cones when completely sideways around 80 mph, so a pretty extreme fuckup and not just knocking over a cone. Most autocrosses have a top speed of around 60-65, but when my local decides that they’re setting up a fast course, I’ll average that. Most don’t have as much open space as we do, though. We have a massive space that’s all ours for the weekend. When they do the open courses, it’s possible to break your car, but a noob will not be able too go fast enough to do so. You need to be ridiculously fast in a ridiculously fast car and royally screw up to break your car there. For example, on one of the exceptionally fast days, I saw a Cobra replica end up in the fence. It was always a possibility, he knew it, I knew it, but we did it anyway. However, this is a guy with something like 700 hp in a 1700 lb car with 14” wide slicks going for FTD. IIRC, his data loggers showed 106 mph when he lost it. This is not a speed many cars there would even be able to get anywhere near even if the course were a straight line out and a straight line back, and even if the car is able to get there on the track, the driver can’t. The noobs can’t usually get out of second gear.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/18/2015 at 14:12

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Yea, deer darting out in to the road is definitely a brown pants moment, lol. And with no ABS? Yeesh.

Shift24 > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 14:30

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Just looked and .... might be awhile. I will say it there are a lot less people interested in it but just means more runs. I still think its way more fun than Autocross

http://scsportscar.com/rallycross-ove…

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Shift24 09/18/2015 at 14:38

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Yep, nothings changed... :( Oh well. Until then, we’ll just have to stick with our “rally stages” out on some backwoods dirt roads, if we ever get a chance to make it back out there, lol.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/18/2015 at 14:47

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Yeah I had two deer dart in front of me and thankfully I narrowly missed them. Tires locked up right away since it was a panic brake scenario. ABS module would be unnecessary weight in a Miata!

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/18/2015 at 22:42

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Technically the ralle36 has taken more damage at autocross than rallycross

911e46z06 > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 09/19/2015 at 02:13

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Run whatever you got, bro